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	<title>Comments on: A quick cosmology question</title>
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	<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question</link>
	<description>Jonathan Zittrain is Professor of Law at Harvard Law School and co-founder of the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard Law School</description>
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		<title>By: Dale Sheldon</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17529</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Sheldon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 21:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futureoftheinternet.org/?p=1114#comment-17529</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll refer you to a great blog, Starts With a Bang, which covers cosmology and has answered this exact same question:

http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2008/02/q-a-the-age-and-size-of-the-universe.php</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll refer you to a great blog, Starts With a Bang, which covers cosmology and has answered this exact same question:</p>
<p><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2008/02/q-a-the-age-and-size-of-the-universe.php" rel="nofollow">http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/2008/02/q-a-the-age-and-size-of-the-universe.php</a></p>
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		<title>By: Scott MacLeod</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17508</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott MacLeod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 01:59:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futureoftheinternet.org/?p=1114#comment-17508</guid>
		<description>I wonder how quantum physics&#039; questions would rewrite &#039;linearity of time&#039; assumptions. Might there have been (quantum) &#039;rewrites&#039; in time and space (e.g. colliding universes) that render such Hubble data subject to significant, further interpretation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder how quantum physics&#8217; questions would rewrite &#8216;linearity of time&#8217; assumptions. Might there have been (quantum) &#8216;rewrites&#8217; in time and space (e.g. colliding universes) that render such Hubble data subject to significant, further interpretation?</p>
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		<title>By: David Berry</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17479</link>
		<dc:creator>David Berry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 10:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futureoftheinternet.org/?p=1114#comment-17479</guid>
		<description>Two things.. 

Dark Matter and Dark Energy.. 

You should read.. 

TROTTA, ROBERTO (2007) Dark Matter: Facing the Arche-Fossil. Collapse Vol. II: Speculative Realism. March 2007

But this is also interesting:

http://astro.ic.ac.uk/rtrotta/public-lectures-courses-and-exhibits</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two things.. </p>
<p>Dark Matter and Dark Energy.. </p>
<p>You should read.. </p>
<p>TROTTA, ROBERTO (2007) Dark Matter: Facing the Arche-Fossil. Collapse Vol. II: Speculative Realism. March 2007</p>
<p>But this is also interesting:</p>
<p><a href="http://astro.ic.ac.uk/rtrotta/public-lectures-courses-and-exhibits" rel="nofollow">http://astro.ic.ac.uk/rtrotta/public-lectures-courses-and-exhibits</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brian Frank</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17460</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 04:42:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futureoftheinternet.org/?p=1114#comment-17460</guid>
		<description>Given all the conditions and unknowns that come packaged with any explanation, I&#039;m inclined to think that we&#039;re just missing some key insight that change the way we look at all the data and will seem obvious 500 years from now. 

Think of the poor pre-Copernicans and their idea that the universe moved around the Earth&#039;s fixed position. How do we know that our assumptions, metaphors, and models aren&#039;t just as flawed? 

As a very casual observer, to me it looks like we might be at an analogous stage: instead of having a theory that helps us make sense of new information, new information seems to make our theory make &lt;i&gt;less&lt;/i&gt; sense... (This is just the impression I get as an outsider.)

This line from the &lt;a href=&quot;http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_concepts.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NASA article&lt;/a&gt; (via @laurenweinstein and @markoff) is telling: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;By definition, the universe encompasses all of space and time as we know it, so it is beyond the realm of the Big Bang model to postulate what the universe is expanding into.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So --- I&#039;m just waiting for the proverbial apple to fall on someone&#039;s head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given all the conditions and unknowns that come packaged with any explanation, I&#8217;m inclined to think that we&#8217;re just missing some key insight that change the way we look at all the data and will seem obvious 500 years from now. </p>
<p>Think of the poor pre-Copernicans and their idea that the universe moved around the Earth&#8217;s fixed position. How do we know that our assumptions, metaphors, and models aren&#8217;t just as flawed? </p>
<p>As a very casual observer, to me it looks like we might be at an analogous stage: instead of having a theory that helps us make sense of new information, new information seems to make our theory make <i>less</i> sense&#8230; (This is just the impression I get as an outsider.)</p>
<p>This line from the <a href="http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/bb_concepts.html" rel="nofollow">NASA article</a> (via @laurenweinstein and @markoff) is telling: </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;By definition, the universe encompasses all of space and time as we know it, so it is beyond the realm of the Big Bang model to postulate what the universe is expanding into.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>So &#8212; I&#8217;m just waiting for the proverbial apple to fall on someone&#8217;s head.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Bryan</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17405</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 02:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futureoftheinternet.org/?p=1114#comment-17405</guid>
		<description>Joe provides a nice explanation which can be summarized as the big bang is accompanied by truly incredible inflation. Also take with a grain of salt the statement that light took 13.2 billion years to get here. Along the path of a photon from emission there to absorption here the elapsed time is zero seconds because the interval is a light-like interval (rather than space-like or time-like). A non-zero mass spacecraft that left at the same instant as a photon that managed somehow to accelerate constantly at 1 g (10 m/s^2) for half the journey and decelerate at the same rate for the other half would measure elapsed time at well less than a normal human life span.

Of course we have no such design that could sustain constant acceleration and if we did the blue shift of cosmic background radiation would be a daunting issue. But the main point is that elapsed time depends on the details of your path and it is zero for photons. That is related to why we know neutrinos have non-zero mass: they could not oscillate among three states otherwise which is observed when measuring solar neutrinos. Sorry for the detour but spacetime is much more interesting than it is usually portrayed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe provides a nice explanation which can be summarized as the big bang is accompanied by truly incredible inflation. Also take with a grain of salt the statement that light took 13.2 billion years to get here. Along the path of a photon from emission there to absorption here the elapsed time is zero seconds because the interval is a light-like interval (rather than space-like or time-like). A non-zero mass spacecraft that left at the same instant as a photon that managed somehow to accelerate constantly at 1 g (10 m/s^2) for half the journey and decelerate at the same rate for the other half would measure elapsed time at well less than a normal human life span.</p>
<p>Of course we have no such design that could sustain constant acceleration and if we did the blue shift of cosmic background radiation would be a daunting issue. But the main point is that elapsed time depends on the details of your path and it is zero for photons. That is related to why we know neutrinos have non-zero mass: they could not oscillate among three states otherwise which is observed when measuring solar neutrinos. Sorry for the detour but spacetime is much more interesting than it is usually portrayed.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17404</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futureoftheinternet.org/?p=1114#comment-17404</guid>
		<description>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space will probably do a better job than me in helping you out here. But I&#039;ll try anyway.

The 13.2 billion light-year number is an oversimplification. During the period light traveled from there to here, the space between expanded. When you&#039;re dealing with expanding space, the word &quot;distance&quot; has to be (re-)defined before you can even have this discussion. (See &quot;comoving distance&quot; in the Wikipedia article.) You touch on a slightly-less-simplified version when you say that _by definition_ if it took 13.2 billion years for the light to get here, it&#039;s 13.2 billion light-years away.

BTW, the universe _is_ expanding faster than the speed of light, if you measure by the change in distance between two sufficiently-distant objects. The objects&#039; velocities as measured in space aren&#039;t faster than light, but space itself is expanding between them. This means there are parts of the universe we will never see, because space is expanding too fast for their light ever to get here. The boundary is called the &quot;observable horizon&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space</a> will probably do a better job than me in helping you out here. But I&#8217;ll try anyway.</p>
<p>The 13.2 billion light-year number is an oversimplification. During the period light traveled from there to here, the space between expanded. When you&#8217;re dealing with expanding space, the word &#8220;distance&#8221; has to be (re-)defined before you can even have this discussion. (See &#8220;comoving distance&#8221; in the Wikipedia article.) You touch on a slightly-less-simplified version when you say that _by definition_ if it took 13.2 billion years for the light to get here, it&#8217;s 13.2 billion light-years away.</p>
<p>BTW, the universe _is_ expanding faster than the speed of light, if you measure by the change in distance between two sufficiently-distant objects. The objects&#8217; velocities as measured in space aren&#8217;t faster than light, but space itself is expanding between them. This means there are parts of the universe we will never see, because space is expanding too fast for their light ever to get here. The boundary is called the &#8220;observable horizon&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: markoff at 01/17/10 01:20:23 &#124; Exectweets</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17402</link>
		<dc:creator>markoff at 01/17/10 01:20:23 &#124; Exectweets</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] answer ! (before my head explodes) http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question (via @zittrain)       markoff  - Sun 17 Jan 1:20  0 votes                     previous [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] answer ! (before my head explodes) <a href="http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question" rel="nofollow">http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question</a> (via @zittrain)       markoff  &#8211; Sun 17 Jan 1:20  0 votes                     previous [...]</p>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17401</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, inflation is the answer.  Inflation is essentially a period of exceedingly fast growth that happened very shortly after the universe started (10^-36 s afterwards).  The universe wasn&#039;t even transparent to light (photons) until 377,000 years after the Big Bang.  The light that comes to us from the earliest part of when the universe was transparent is not of galaxies; the universe was too hot and such for these to form.  That earliest light is actually the glow of the early, newly transparent and hot universe, called the cosmic background.  The light from that hot time has been stretched during travel to us and is now no longer heat (infrared) but microwave.  The light from these very old galaxies Hubble sees did start from galaxies that were 13.2 billion light years away then. Due to the expansion of space, &quot;now&quot; these galaxies are much farther away (47 billion light years or so) and probably look very very different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, inflation is the answer.  Inflation is essentially a period of exceedingly fast growth that happened very shortly after the universe started (10^-36 s afterwards).  The universe wasn&#8217;t even transparent to light (photons) until 377,000 years after the Big Bang.  The light that comes to us from the earliest part of when the universe was transparent is not of galaxies; the universe was too hot and such for these to form.  That earliest light is actually the glow of the early, newly transparent and hot universe, called the cosmic background.  The light from that hot time has been stretched during travel to us and is now no longer heat (infrared) but microwave.  The light from these very old galaxies Hubble sees did start from galaxies that were 13.2 billion light years away then. Due to the expansion of space, &#8220;now&#8221; these galaxies are much farther away (47 billion light years or so) and probably look very very different.</p>
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		<title>By: yvette</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17399</link>
		<dc:creator>yvette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 01:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futureoftheinternet.org/?p=1114#comment-17399</guid>
		<description>My understanding is that the photos are a snapshot of history. It was 13.2 bil LY away at some point in time, but not any more. We can&#039;t calculate at what point in time it was 13.2 bil LY away unless we know the speed of the expansion of the universe and assume that the expansion is linear, which most likely is not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My understanding is that the photos are a snapshot of history. It was 13.2 bil LY away at some point in time, but not any more. We can&#8217;t calculate at what point in time it was 13.2 bil LY away unless we know the speed of the expansion of the universe and assume that the expansion is linear, which most likely is not.</p>
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		<title>By: rektide</title>
		<link>http://futureoftheinternet.org/a-quick-cosmology-question/comment-page-1#comment-17398</link>
		<dc:creator>rektide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 00:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://futureoftheinternet.org/?p=1114#comment-17398</guid>
		<description>that galaxy wasnt &quot;13.2 billion light years away 13.2 billion years ago&quot;, that point in time is 13.2 billion years &amp; light-years away from here/now.  ((( assuming our universal constants are indeed universal. )))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>that galaxy wasnt &#8220;13.2 billion light years away 13.2 billion years ago&#8221;, that point in time is 13.2 billion years &amp; light-years away from here/now.  ((( assuming our universal constants are indeed universal. )))</p>
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